Sensory Approach to Manual Therapy
Sensory Approach to Manual Therapy
From Eating Disorder to Empathy: How Self‑Massage, Science, and YouTube Built a Global Community
What if relief starts with being seen, not being pressed? Our conversation with author and massage therapist Rachel Richards follows a surprising path—from the isolating rules of an eating disorder and the highs of stage life to a quiet, practical discovery: slow, kind touch can change how pain feels, and a camera can carry that care to people who may never set foot in a clinic. Rachel shares how a tiny, two‑minute breathing-and-touch video went viral, why self‑massage gives agency to those who feel safest at home, and how community comments can be as therapeutic as any technique.
We dig into the science without losing the human thread. You’ll hear how C‑tactile fibers respond to gentle, unhurried contact; why therapeutic alliance consistently predicts outcomes; and how reframing rest as an active practice builds resilience against burnout. We also talk about trust—how it’s earned in the first moments with light, predictable touch and clear consent—and about customization, shaping care to the person’s goals rather than the diagnosis.
Across it all runs a simple idea: connection reduces threat. Whether it’s holding a hand, tracing a fingertip to anchor breath, or reading “me too” from someone halfway around the world, social safety turns the nervous system down and opens the door to change. Rachel’s YouTube work shows what access can look like: free, practical tools; a friendly face; and an invitation to participate in your own relief.
If you’re a clinician, you’ll leave with fresh ways to center empathy and build simple take‑home practices. If you’re a listener in pain, you’ll find techniques you can try today—and a reminder that you’re not alone. If this conversation helps, share it with someone who needs a gentler approach, subscribe for future episodes, and leave a review to help others find us.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to another podcast of the sensory approach to manual therapy. Today, my guest is Rachel Richards. And Rachel was a former student of mine at a class I taught in New York. And she attended my how to uh how massage therapy works class, now known as Neuroscience of Massage. And I think she's the only student I've ever had who's actually looked at all the research in my course, which she actively told me that she was doing, and I think is fantastic because I recommend it to everybody. And so I'm really happy about that. I want to talk about that. But Rachel, um, I didn't know this when she was a student, but she's also an author, and she has a very popular YouTube page where she teaches people how to do self-massage at home. And that is probably the thing I want to talk the most about because that to me is a unique, unique way to do massage therapy. So welcome, Rachel.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. I really appreciate being here. It's good to talk to you.
SPEAKER_00:So before we get to the YouTube page, I want to talk about the transition because I read your book, um, which put it mildly is intense. Uh, a really great book. Um, and I'm I'm I'm actually blanking on the name at the moment because it's been a month and I put it down.
SPEAKER_01:Hungry for Life.
SPEAKER_00:Very hungry for Life. I see it in my mind that I'm blanking on the name. Hungry for Life. And I'll put a link to it um in my um podcasts when we go, so you can you can talk about it there and promote it because you also have another book coming out, correct?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I wrote another book. It's actually a psychological suspense novel, which I never considered myself a novelist, but there you go. And I just um, I don't know, just a few weeks ago started writing a sequel. Um, just out of nowhere. I don't I don't consider myself necessarily a writer writing all the time. I just I get the urge once in a while, and then I I do it, and it tends to come out pretty well. So I'm I'm happy so far.
SPEAKER_00:Now, your your first book that you wrote, Hungry for Life, uh, that is more of an autobiography. That's a your story told from your point of view, and um, it's quite intense. It's a beautiful read. I highly recommend it for everybody, especially if people don't understand much about eating disorders. Um, I understood a little, but this was eye-opening to say the least. My wife is about to read it, and she's excited for that as well, especially since I have two teenage daughters, so it was very eye-opening as well, in regards to making sure I'm aware of what's going on. But what interested me the the most, and I don't want to give away too much in the book, but you do mention that you eventually transition into massage therapy, which is what you do now. But it's almost like this afterthought footnote at the end of the book. You know, the majority of the book is not about that experience, but it's the only context in which I had met you. So I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that. Um you were in performing arts, you were very talented, you were a successful performing artist, you traveled the nation, you were you you could have gone places essentially. And some point you transition into massage therapy, but it becomes this footnote in the book. What is it that inspired you? Was it from having received touch, because you don't talk about that in the book, um, having received touch while being injured as a performing artist? Was it simply something that, oh, I just, you know, take it randomly out of a hat? What brought you to the idea of massage therapy?
SPEAKER_01:I wish I could say that because it would be so easy, right? And actually, at the time that I wrote the book, I don't think I really knew. It was a very long time ago now. It's been maybe um, it's been over a decade since I wrote the book. And as time goes by, in retrospect, it becomes clearer and clearer to me what drew me to massage therapy. At the time, I knew that I didn't want to keep going out of town because I met somebody who is now my husband and um who I wanted to be with. And I hated the in-between the jobs. It was just brain like stuff I just didn't want to do, and it was adding up to a lot of my life, and I wanted to do something more meaningful. Wasn't loving the audition process as much as I used to either and begging for work. Um, it's a it's a unique industry. So I just looked at everything else and what what else could I possibly want to do? Because of course I put all my eggs in the theater basket. Um, and health sciences kept coming up over and over as just an interest. And it was like, oh, some massage therapy thing sounds cool. Maybe I'll try it. That that was it at the moment. Like, oh, oh, this sounds neat. Oh, I get to learn anatomy. What's you know, what can I do?
SPEAKER_00:Almost offhandedly.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um then what made you fall in love with it?
SPEAKER_01:It it really it actually that happened over time as well. But I I was really interested in the science of it. And I I didn't realize the human connection part of it, I think, until much later. So being so sick um with anorexia, as my book explains, um, it's very isolating. And it it is complete touch deprivation. I mean, to the point where even when you you are touched or hugged, you complete disconnect, completely disconnected from your body. You don't receive it, and it's not a normal, healthy way to live. Um, and it sort of spirals um into more and more isolation.
SPEAKER_00:And you talk about that briefly in the book when you're with your first boyfriend, you talk about that sensation of touch being so foreign and and it was almost interesting reading that section of the book and then knowing where you end up as a massage therapist in my head. I was like, this is so far apart. Um that's so interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And and part of that, um, and part of the anorexia was I don't deserve this. It was very self-punishing. Anything that felt good felt shameful. Um and I I wish I could say why that developed. There was a lot of bullying when I was a child, there was a lot of misinterpretation, a lot of, you know, my parents did a wonderful job, but some of what they did clashed with what I understood, and it all snowballed into I don't deserve to feel good. Um, so I would run away from it. Self-punishment, it made me feel better to abuse myself, basically. Um, like uh like it was justifying something.
SPEAKER_00:Honestly, if you if you were able to trace why you had what you had, you would probably be one of the only people on the planet who could do that. Because I think psychologists spend millions of dollars in research and authors and books trying to do that exact same thing. It's the nature nurture concept, and it's the context the both of them mixed in together and and everything about that, and it becomes so complex that it's like what led to it? Well, any number of things and everything at the same time, and everything, and then different for everybody.
SPEAKER_01:So you can't even get like a pile up similar data early. So it's it's really, really complicated.
SPEAKER_00:And and a good example of that isn't you talk about when the first time you were in the clinic in New York and the lady was hiding grapes or raisins in her gown. Yes, you know, like it's different for everybody. You were in there and you were like, I'm getting out of here as soon as possible, and other people are still trying to cheat the system. Yes, hoping to get out, but also hoping to still cheat the system. And so again, it's it's different for everyone, like you said, and and and it's reason for being there. You say is shameful and self-abuse, and other people may not see it the same way.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, everyone's got multiple reasons and different reasons, absolutely. And everyone's recovery journey is completely different. I mean, some people find religion, and that, you know, that was not my path at all. Um, but what I what I think ended up happening um as I recovered, as the the weight came on, as I met somebody who saw the good parts of me and you know, helped me see good parts of myself. And I slowly kind of came out of that shell. I mean, initially, a hand on my shoulder or a squeeze, like when I could feel it again. Oh my God, it just like I almost cried from the relief of this. I'm almost gonna cry now from this connection. Um, and I for some reason did not put it together with gee, massage therapy sounds kind of cool, you know.
SPEAKER_00:And that's interesting too, because in massage, as a therapist, you are receiving touch because your hands are contacting another human. So we are touching each other, but it is very much the intent is very much unidirectional. We are touching them. You're still not on the receiving end of touch unless you're in school and you're receiving tons of massage or you go get frequent care. Um, and so that that's an interesting way too, because then you're you're involved in touch, but you're still in control of the version of touch.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. It's kind of safer, isn't it? Like it's it's flirting with touch, right? But I'm still I'm still the giver.
SPEAKER_00:I think you might have just found the title for this podcast. The flirting flirting with touch with Rachel Richards. Like that is a good, yeah, that what a great way of describing massage therapy. I'm flirting with, I like that. So so when you first met your husband and you were receiving that beneficial touch, and for the first time you're experiencing this sensation and you're welcome welcoming of it. Um, and did that happen to overlap with massage school, or was it more you had met him, you went to massage school after, or was it and did the two coincide very well?
SPEAKER_01:I was acting for a while after after I met him while we were dating. Um, I would be gone for months at a time doing a show in another state, or um, and I think what what ended up pushing me was actually just logistics. We wanted to move in together. I knew I eventually wanted to start a family, and this that lifestyle was just not working for me. So I was kind of forced. Um, and it was really hard. I mean, I went through withdrawal. I really um it it's a little bit like a drug, the the acting business, not the business, but for me, it was the work itself, working with a team of creative artists, putting on something awesome. I can't say I minded the applause and attention, you know, which I think actually a lot of that is almost plays into some of the the anorexia, that need for validation, the pat on the back, you're doing okay. Um, I also got to put on different personas, be other I didn't have to be myself. I got to hide behind the safety of a character that was written for me that I could feel. And so I knew like, oh, this is this is a character that's accepted in their own way and is normal almost like and can integrate with the world. I didn't think I had that ability in myself. So I got to play being a person.
SPEAKER_00:And it's interesting too, because like being on stage and public speaking, you know, people ask me why, like I find public speaking it's an easier thing for me. I know some people have a hard time with that. A lot of my fellow educators, we talk about this quite frequently, and they say it's still one of the things that makes them nervous. And um, I don't get nervous about public speaking, be it arrogance, be it ego, be it ease, be it that I used to do theater as well. So standing up those, but there is a chemical component too. You're standing up there, you're speaking, there's a dopamine rush, there's an adrenaline rush. So there's a chemical sense of satisfaction because those chemicals make us feel strong and they make us feel good. And that that can be ultimately quite satisfying as well. So it's not too surprising that like you had a withdrawal and you missed it, and that there was this sense of what am I going to next? Because because there is that sense of wow, this was really a big rush, a big thing. My daughter just did her first big play ever. And she signed up for a musical for next year. They she's she was 10 when she started, she's 11 now. They go three hours a week from September through May, and then they put on five productions at the end of the in the end of the year. And I'm like, man, at 10 years old, 11, that's a big deal. And like she was and she was breaking down. I'm like, yeah, this was like you created a pipe community for that long, and now to just suddenly be done with and not see them again is is pretty intense.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes. And if you're trying to do it as a living, to be done and starting from square one, like yes, you have to do it. And then to optimize, yeah. It doesn't do a lot to get you the next job, right? Exactly. So that's yeah, that's the really tough part of it. Um, so I, you know, so I think it was more uh a logistics thing. And it's kind of funny that you say about public speaking because people were like, Oh, you should go ahead and do YouTube videos, you'd be great because you're such an actor. And I'm thinking, well, but I'm not acting, I'm being myself. That sounds so much more nerve-wracking.
SPEAKER_00:You've got to act like yourself. Right, act like myself.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly, which is yeah, it's a well, what part of myself do I want to show? How much of myself do I want to show? And then it's it's interesting because over the years, and you become more vulnerable, especially with something like what I'm teaching, you end up showing a lot of yourself. And and and that's you know, that's that's part of that connection. And I think what was so beautiful about getting the feedback on the channel, and even just being a massage therapist and seeing clients is the I'm not alone. Oh my God, other people feel like this too. You know, with anorexia, it's so held inside. You don't, you don't share this stuff, this, but you don't even know you have words for what you're feeling. And then you see other people going through the same thing, the self-punishment, the, and really, this is very influenced by our society. The I'll sleep when I'm dead kind of thing, the the the push yourself, you have to be productive every moment of your life. Um, pain, anxiety, uh, who's got time for it, and who wants to even admit it because it's a weakness or something like that, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So I did a series of podcasts on burnout a couple years ago, uh, because I had experienced burnout. And I think people often forget that they they think recovery, rest and regeneration and recovery are doing nothing. And if mentally they can just make a tiny shift from I'm doing nothing to the thing I'm doing is recovering. So I'm doing something, but the something I'm doing is nothing for rest, recovery, and regeneration. I think mentally, if I because athletes do this, athletes get really good at this. They're they're on, they're on, they're on, they're off, and then they have to sit, they have to rest, they have to recover so they can be on again. Now that's their only job, unless they have children and families and stuff like that. Whereas people who have you know nine to five jobs and stuff like that, and then they also want to be in shape, and then they also want to eat well, and they also want to socialize, they don't necessarily their time constraints are harder, but they often forget that the activity of resting is also doing something, and that something they're doing is self-care. So when you that is valuable, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's the thing I try to teach is this is this is valuable, this is an investment in your life, basically. I mean, if you make it a regular practice, your life gets better, your productivity gets better. So all the all the things that you actually want to be when you are productive, it's gonna come from this moment that you're taking for yourself. Because so many people say, I can't meditate, it's a waste of time. But if you can flip to see it as no, this is this is a valuable moment that I am taking for myself and this is going to make a difference, then it's it's really flipped in the brain to something. That's that's when you're really doing something.
SPEAKER_00:So is that so let's transition then to your YouTube channel because this sounds like a perfect segue. Is that where you find you you connect with your listeners and your followers on YouTube? Um, because I think you have over a hundred thousand subscribers. Uh your videos are quite popular, but you've been doing this for how many years now on YouTube?
SPEAKER_01:10. I just had my 10th year anniversary.
SPEAKER_00:I I watched the bloopers of them. I thought it was very funny. The sirens and all that kind of stuff coming out of invoice. Um, and so when is that really what you find that they connect with? Because like if I if I do a video of how to treat you know neck tension or tension headaches and stuff like that, sure, it might get, you know, if if you have a big following, it might get a lot of people. But is the connection that you're creating with your listeners self-care and care, you know, focus on self-embodiment? Or is it more just okay, here's the technique, here's what you do for plant or fasciitis, kind of thing like that? What's the intent you have behind the page that makes people? I mean, I read some of the comments, people are quite passionate about what you give them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So it started as the ladder. Here's your technique for plantar fasciis. You're welcome, right? And uh, and people started responding, well, this really helped. But over time, it became so much more than that. And um, I think that that really came from my first video to go viral was what I thought a stupid little two-minute video that would get like nothing. It's tracing your fingers and breathing. Inhale up, exhale down. So you have the tactile component. It's something that was recommended for my child who is neurodiverse, like her school said, over break, this is a great thing to do. And I'm like, you know what? That seems kind of nice for everybody. I'll do it. I watched the video after it's literally two minutes. I said, this is the dumbest thing, but I'll publish it. It's got over a million views. I think it's I think it's almost at two million and the most comments and people, it's just how it's changed people and it and it was incredible. And so that that really spoke to me. Um, so this wasn't, you know, plantar fascitis or frozen shoulder. This was anxiety. I mean, this is something that gnaws away at you, but also goes along with those chronic pain conditions and and and and all intertwined together. So I realized that it was speaking to people on a much deeper level. And that that came to me through the comments that that I would receive. And the other, the other part that just became such a mystery to me is some of those comments. I mean, like I I did this frozen shoulder thing once, I'm cured. Look, I can I can move my shoulder. What? Are you kidding me? And it's not like it was one, like a lot. Like I've had migraines for 20 years, nothing's ever helped. Um, and this this works better than medication. And I and I can't believe I'm pain-free in the middle. I had put it on as like, this is great to do in between migraines to see if you can decrease the severity and the frequency. People were doing it during migraines, saying, Oh my God, what is what is at play here? Because it's not rubbing your temples or you know, doing that quote unquote myofascial release, which I need to use until we come up with a better term for it, a more accurate term for it. I kind of feel stuck with that term.
SPEAKER_00:Um but uh the joy of speaking to one of my students with our vernacular and our current manual therapy professions.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Oh, well, and I went down a well, I'm still in it, a polygram rabbit hole that I will never get out of. I am just, yeah, I am listening to the city. Paul listens to this podcast forever.
SPEAKER_00:I'll let it, I'll let him, I'll tell him that you're saying hi.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, oh, I think he's phenomenal. Um, but has destroyed me. So in the best way possible. Um so yeah, so it's so it's it's what is what is at play here because it's not a tick technique, you know. So there's there's something, I mean, it's just like what you say with with um massage and chronic pain. Like there's there's context, you know, there's there's a lot of there's a a human relationship, there's a uh a situation. And I think and it's interesting because I'm not with people in person, but that you can have that connection with a stranger online is really interesting. You know, you see a friendly face, you see somebody who gets it, and they guide you through this. And I think that's that's a big part of it, a big part of the I'm not alone feeling. They read the other comments. Oh my gosh, you know, look at all these people who had the same thing. Um, and that's the first time for a lot of people where they're taking initiative, they're doing something for themselves and not relying on doctors and multiple diagnoses and nothing ever kind of hitting the mark, and then the depression or the anxiety that comes with nobody gets it and is it all in my head? And all the, you know, this is the first time for a lot of people where it's like, no, it's not all in your head. And and there's there's something you could do right here, right now, just by being with it and by almost making friends with it a little bit. I mean, I don't want to understand that it's a protective mechanism, right? That what your body do is doing is trying to protect you and finding some sort of solace or maybe even a bit of gratitude for the body's healing capacity and survival instinct, right? And and being kind to that area that's been driving you crazy forever, that that alone can evoke tears, just like the hand on your shoulder, right? That should kind of be killing you forever. You realize you can actually soothe yourself. Like that's that's incredibly overpowering. You never knew you could do that, and it's so simple. And suddenly something opens, I think, for for a lot of people, you know.
SPEAKER_00:I started soothing myself. Uh, my daughter, my youngest, has always soothed herself. She doesn't suck her thumb or her fingers when she was a kid. She would take her lips and she'd put them on my hairy forearm, and I'm quite hairy, and she would just like barely let her lips touch the hair. And now, whenever I'm like, I'll just I'll sit there and I'll do this in the car, and I'm like, oh wow. That's a really unique one. And then the other one is um in uh the movie The Da Vinci Code, Ian McMillan is sitting in the car at one point and he chews his finger like this when he's stressed at the end. When Tom Hanks and um uh the lady who plays Roger Too are getting off the airplane and he's insane. So I'll sit there and I'll drive it when I'm stressed. I'll do those exact same positions. It's really you just think the self-soothing stuff, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:But you you you talk about that um that sense of connection, and it's interesting because when I first started massage, I came from energy work. I came for Reiki, I came from you know, esoteric thought process, I came from full-blown meditation, guided hypnosis. I loved all that kind of stuff. And then I went heavy into the science and I I completely threw that stuff out the window. And I went full down the science rabbit hole, the pain science.com page, Todd Hardgrove, the Better Clinician Project, um, all these all these heavy, heavy science, you know, Andrew Lau, all these kinds of things like this. And and not that they're wrong, they are incredibly intelligent people and incredibly smart. And I think some of them are slowly transitioning um to that embodiment page, that phase where the science is important. I do want to understand the mechanisms because the science lets me heal the masses, but it does nothing for the person in front of me. The connection is what lets me help the person in front of me, but the science is what helps me heal everybody or helps me help not heal, but helps me help everybody, knowing that on average I can help this many people, that we can reduce pain by these averages, those become important to help everybody, but it doesn't help the person in front of you. The person in front of you, it's about the connection with them. And you know, when you when you talk about having read Paul Ingram's pain science blog and it destroyed you, I I have a podcast where I talked about this with Michael Hamm. We talked about going through a crisis of faith in in manual therapy, and I had my crisis of faith, and it came when I was reading Paul's stuff. Um, and then it came back to the, you know, I came back to really believing how massage works and understanding when I started creating my neuroscience class because it helped explain and connect a lot more dots together and not just a mechanical or structured biomedical model. But the more I do that, I just created this new series that I taught a few times this year, and I have a few contracts for next year called Creating Empathetic Touch. It's a series of classes. Um and that idea of creating empathetic touch, uh, that idea of lightness, of softness being present, um it really creates a sense of connection and safety. And it made me realize that the science is great. It's great to understand that oscillation and vibration help fascia more than mechanical forces or stripping. Like you can't strip fascia, but you can do vibration and oscillation. It helps to know that eccentric loading is good for tendinopathy. It helps to know that you know non-specific chronic low back pain heals on its own with or without intervention at certain rates. It helps to know all that kind of stuff. But really, what helps is to sit there and look at somebody in the eyes and say, your pain's real, you're not making it up. Yes, I know other people haven't been able to help you, and I may not be able to, but at least we know it's real and we can try and we'll make an effort. And that connection gives them that sense of safety and and support and everything else we need. And I think that's such an important component. And I love that that's where you're you would mention that that's where you're transitioning in your practice with time. You know, I'm 20 years in and I'm finally figuring that out. And the more I speak to practitioners who've been in it a long time, the more they say the same thing. The longer they're in the profession there, the more they move to the connection base.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. And and interestingly, there's a good amount of science about connection, right? Because we know with empirical evidence that the most uh important aspect of so many, not just massage therapy, is not what happens, you know, logistically in the treatment room, but the connection between patient, doctor, client, massage therapist, right? So we we actually have that scientifically.
SPEAKER_00:Pavel Goldstein has a great article on that that he published last October, and he actually was on as a guest on one of my podcasts. And we talk about that. And he he um he talks famously about having done a paper where he just held people's hands. Oh, yes, yes, he did a study of the holding hands study um for pain management, just holding hands and the intent of empathy versus just detachment. And to me, that's that's so impressive and amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, that you gave us that paper to read before your class.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah. Um so with your YouTube page, um, it starts out as just purely mechanical. Here's how you treat these things, and it moves into the sense of connection and community. Um, what's the next step for you with that? Is it to keep going that way, or do you want to bring that community together? Because part of me wonders, like I have all these people, and then I teach classes and then they listen to my podcast. I get, or I go to the, you know, I go to the Canadian Massage Conference, or I go to AMTA National Convention, or I go to the American Massage Conference, and I and I see all these people and I they say, Oh, I I I heard you on your podcast, and I I I meet my community. Um, do you find yourself going out there and meeting your community? Um, or or is it really just stays online for you?
SPEAKER_01:So far, just online. Um, I've flirted with that's the word for today, flirting, I guess. That's our key word today. Um, with creating memberships. Um so where you can um I think uh what is it,$2.99 a month. So if you if you pay$2.99 a month, you can join my membership. I'm not a lot of people say, you know, or will make their YouTube video. This chunk of my library is for members only. I don't, everything's free to everybody. This is just for those people who have said I've changed their lives. They use my videos every day. If you would like to help me out a little bit with all of the work and time and production and equipment and things that go into this, I'd love your help. And and um, I also make those people my priority. You know, I'll respond to them first. I will listen to their take their requests most seriously in terms of, you know, for future videos, things like that. That really did not go anywhere. I may have seven or eight members out of a hundred thousand. I think that people who really push or make things only available to members maybe, but this was never a money-making thing for me. So, with that, if I were to say, um, I'm gonna give this class and it costs a certain amount of money, I'm like, would anyone come? Or are these just people who are looking for, you know, something um accessible, free that they don't have to work for? They could just click and do it in their living room and feel better. Um, so so I don't know. I kind of felt the waters with that a little bit. Um, but also everyone's, I mean, you you do a lot of traveling, but you know, everyone's all over the place. And and I think most people are not going to travel to, you know, for for a class with me. I'm I am assuming. Um especially because I'm not, I I haven't developed a teaching sort of career.
SPEAKER_00:And your your listeners are not primarily massage therapists, they're primarily the general population.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that's and and and that's the part of the beauty is how easy and accessible and free uh so many people say, I don't have access to. Massage therapy for any number of reasons. You know, it's very expensive. It's not easy to find a really skilled, excellent massage therapist. Um who you trust. Who you trust.
SPEAKER_00:I find finding skilled therapists is actually quite easy. I find trusting that therapist is hard. Yeah. For whatever reason, be it, you know, they're male, female, be it that they're old, young, be it that they're educated, uneducated, be it that they're, you know, coming in disheveled or dressed properly. Like it doesn't actually matter why we have a sense of trust. It matters that you have a sense of trust. And you can, you know, I talk about it in my class. You can do everything in your I have a placebo class where I talk about put everything in your favor, put all the odds in your favor to create that sense of trust. But you may have complete by by dressing a specific way, thinking, okay, I'm gonna create the most amount of trust possible, you may completely turn somebody off. And you can just do your best. But I think skilled therapy exists far and wide. Trusting a therapist is very unique.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And and skilled, yes, but then also to have it malleable enough to be specific to you, right? So can they do they do that same evidence-based thing for everybody with this condition? Or do they understand that that's not gonna cut it for everybody? Um Exactly. No, or they're gonna lose. So so there's there's just a lot of components that go into it. And then there's also the all the people who are just too nervous or self-conscious. I mean, it is an extremely vulnerable thing to take off your clothes and lie on a stranger's table and allow them to do what are you gonna do to me, right? You did and I uh the my first time with almost every client, even if they've been to massage therapists, that's always their body is just the most tense, the most jumpy. And their second session, if everything, you know, if they've if I've earned their trust, they're just out, you know, like they just give themselves over. So um, so even with that, you know, and and then you have a population of people who may have experienced some abuse or trauma. So self-massage may be the only way to go for them, or that feels safe, you know, at least for now. So um, so yeah, so I don't necessarily see myself developing the same audience you do. But also, I do work full-time as a massage therapist and a mom and a writer. So, so I'm not really sure where that would come into play in my schedule at the moment. So maybe it'll evolve into something like that.
SPEAKER_00:I think for me, one of the things that you do with your YouTube channel that is the most rewarding and selfless for me is the what you talked about, the accessibility. You know, internet is not accessible to everybody, but it's becoming a very common accessibility. Um, here in Canada, uh, they're passing laws that make it where internet, it's not currently there, but they're debating the idea of making it one of the basic staples, like electricity, like running water, even though there are many uh indigenous cultures and uh regions that actually still don't have rain water, which is a whole other problem. But they are looking at making internet this like you know mandatory thing. And it it opens up the healthcare. I just did um, I just did a talk with uh Project Echo, which is a group that focuses on um remote communities. It was with the University of New Mexico, and I talked about the effects of kinesotaping and pain management. Um, and their primary goal is to get these video recordings out to practitioners in remote communities who can't come and take a class, who can't do stuff like that. And and that video component of self-care to me becomes it's such a great resource. I know I have used your videos with some of my clients. My low-income clients who are like, look, I can't avoid every session with you, can't come. Like, look, we'll do what we can, we'll do a prorated scale, but if you still can't come see me, here's a resource. Go watch those videos and do some of that self-care. Because if nothing else, they're paying attention to self. You know, we talked about the jar and allostasis in the class. And if nothing else, they're sitting there taking care of themselves, trying to understand their embodiment a little bit more and how great is that and how important is that. I love that. For me, that's probably the most important component of what you're offering because massage historically is one of those things that if you're not in a room with someone, you don't get. And and you have found a way to break that barrier. And and I love that. I find that inspiring.
SPEAKER_01:And it's and it's good for people to know that they can do that, you know, like you can offer yourself a lot of relief without becoming a massage therapist, you know. It's um a lot of it's not rocket science, you know. You can follow along. Um, not to undermine, but you know, still you there's a lot you can do. Um, and that's interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Massage therapy is not rocket science. I'll say it. I know you don't want to because you don't want to offend anybody. I didn't want to offend anyone. Massage therapy is not rocket science. It takes, I know, I know you can risk breaking somebody's bones. It's but you'd you'd really have to push hard and be really not paying attention. The majority of massage therapy is incredibly high reward with almost no risk. It doesn't mean there's no risk, but no risk of physiological injury. Doesn't mean there's not risk of you know crossing boundaries, ethical stuff, but it's it's you don't need to be any cra and I know I'm gonna upset some people, and that's fine, be upset with me. I don't care. It is not an incredibly skilled profession.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. You can make a mistake, it is the high reward, low risk. Yeah, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:You can make a mistake and they're not gonna walk out uh destroyed, right you know, like, oh, so you go a little deep and their muscle hurts for a few extra hours, or you don't go deep enough and they don't get the recovery, or you you know, you spend too long on one tissue. Like it's it's not the end. It's not that it's not important to know and have the nuance, but it doesn't, yeah, it's it's not, it's not like you're sitting there breaking somebody's bones or cutting them open and things like that.
SPEAKER_01:No, admittedly, there have been times uh on the table I'll be working on you know somebody's knee and I'll be like, How is that? Is that sort of where you were feeling it? And they say, Oh, it was the other knee. And I said, And that's why I'm not a surgeon.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly, right? Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Now I know I went into the right profession.
SPEAKER_00:For me, it's when for me, it's when they roll over. I don't change sides of the table and they roll over, and I'm like, Yeah, I'm still treating the correct side of the body. I'm like, I I forgot I have to go to the other side of the table too now that they've turned over. Yeah, that one's a big one for me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I well, and thank you for sending it to your your clients. I I really am very flattered and I appreciate that. That's actually why I started the YouTube channel. I did not say, I'm off to get 100,000 subscribers and I'm gonna, you know, make this my full-time job and become famous on the internet. That's not which a lot of people do today. But um, no, 10 years ago, uh, I had read that a lot of people are starting to prefer video over reading. And I was sending a monthly newsletter that I've been doing for 15 years, I think. Um, so I thought, oh, well, I'll do a little bit of writing and include a video in my thing. And then I realized, oh, this is great because I'm always giving something to my clients to do in between sessions. Whether they do or not, I feel like it's a, you know, here's your goodie back from the session and to carry you over and to help you remember, you know, take a little time for yourself. And a lot of times it's a bit of a self-massage or it's a stretch, something to make whatever was bothering them feel a little better during the time in between or extend the benefits. And then they come back and I'd say, How'd that work out for you? And they say, I completely forgot what you said. So now I have video, and I thought this is great. And I, and that's all it was for. It was for the clients that I saw. And I would um think of what do I give out the most and start filming those and I would send it to them. And so I I had never expected it to go there, but it's it's a really great resource to have because every time I see somebody, I'm like, oh, I've got a video for you. I think you're really gonna like it, you know? So it it uh it does help out a lot. And uh, and I love that I have to say I'm a little jealous. I love that Canada is moving forward um with the internet. I I just I immediately was like, oh God, we're so moving backwards here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if today is the best day to talk about a lot.
SPEAKER_01:No, but it's but it's relevant because I think today more than ever, people are looking for that connection. You know, it's it's everything is getting so divided, and we're trying to find a way to bring it back. And with all of the anxiety and the unknown, and I'm I'm talking about it because it's affecting every client that I'm seeing in a very direct way.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I live in Canada and it affects we, I mean, I'd say out of 10 sessions, nine of them, we talk about global unrest at the moment.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yep. So they're coming to me with increased pain, increased anxiety, and things like that. And I think more people are going online looking up what do I do here? I'm I'm I'm lost, right? So it's it's channels like mine and people who reach out and things like that that that bring people together that say we're in the same boat and and let's let's heal together. Because that's that's all in in when we have or feel we have no control, and there are outside events just beyond what we can handle, cope with, do anything about, we always can control our response. It's not easy, it's a practice, but we can always do something to help ourselves be able to live it better. Um I think it's I just heard this great line from a priest of all people. I actually last week was a bad week. There were two deaths in my family, and one of them involved a mass, and I was brought up Jewish, and now I really don't have um much religion that I practice at all. But the priest said a person reaches full maturity when there's nothing else but to say, How can I help? How can I be of service? You know? And right. And I was like, whoa, you know, I didn't, I didn't know I'd be getting a whoo today, you know. And it's it's just it's so true. And if we can get ourselves into that space, if we can mature together and then say, how can we help each other? Because we can't help each other until we help ourselves. I really, really believe that. And this is one way to start doing that and bringing people back together and connecting and and and and just being a real on a human level, not events that you read, but like real human connection. Um, and I think that that's where the importance of my channel has become more of a realization in recent times. Um, also because one of those deaths was my mother-in-law, who was the most kind, friendly, outgoing. She was a teacher. I mean, she made friends with the person riding the elevator with her, the person next to her on the train, the person bagging her groceries, not just saying, Hey, how are you? But, you know, she'd come to me. Oh, I just met Denise on the subway. She has three kids. One just graduated from this. And can you believe we were at the same science fair seven years ago with my student? It was such an event. This is the kind of woman she was. And I'm like, we need more of these people, you know? And she is her legacy, it's something that I want to be. So so that's that's how this YouTube channel went from here's a technique for plantar fascitis to let's do this. Let's get let's get together and do this. Let's let's let's make something better, you know. Let's make ourselves beautiful so we can make the collective better.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I find that beautiful. I really do. I I think that's such a good and it's such a good way to bring a larger community together, but it's also such a good way to keep a community that's local together as well. I think that's really great. Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And what you said resonated with me when I uh interviewed you for for my YouTube channel, which if you check out my YouTube channel, that'll be coming out soon. Um, and you when I said, can you sum up, you know, everything we talked about? And one of the biggest things you said was connection. You know, if you don't have a touch uh, you know, in person, it's a connection, even if it's online and how important that is. And we were talking about chronic pain. Um, so even for you know, for for physical sensations in the body, that connection is is is so important. And I was like, yes.
SPEAKER_00:I I did a um I did a a new class and part of my creating a pathetic touch series called Touch is a communication tool. Um and I'm actually about to write an article about it and put it in my newsletter, so that'll be coming out relatively soon. Um and and one of the things that I when I was teaching this class and researching and putting it together was the C tactile afferent fiber pathways, which are these specific sensory cells that live inside our dermis that are hyper or stimulated, um and not isolated, but more stimulated when our pressure is super light. So, like in class when we do with our pressure scales, so under 35 grams of pressure, but also when the speed of touch is anywhere from one to 10 centimeters per second. And I didn't notice when I taught this class in when I taught the class in October with you guys, um, this information I hadn't come across it yet. So now I've updated my course to include this material because I did teach slow touch, going, okay, this feels good as part of my ASMR classes and stuff like that. But now there's concrete science showing us why it feels good and which pathways are highlighted. And for me, I realize that I I think now the more I reflect on those CFR and pathways, I realize that first touch in sessions becomes really essential to that holding and that slow touch. But even in daily life. So, like when my daughters uh come into my arms, when my wife comes into my arms, when I greet my friends. Um, this morning I met a random friend at a cafe who I haven't seen in a few years. Um and we hugged. And when I hugged him, instead of like hugging him, giving him this strong hug, I hugged him, and my hands like really moved slowly down his spine. And I realized I've started integrating that really slow sense of touch into almost every component. And you know, even like self-cursing, it's not quite the same, but slow, slow touch. Um, for me, it really creates that sense of connection. Um, and and it's become it's become part of my daily life almost. It's something that I try to integrate.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's part of the the literally slowing down because feeling a slow movement gets you, you know, it's it's the rushing that makes us miss each other, I think. You know, oh I I will get together when we can get together because I have this, this, this, and this on my to-do list and on my agenda. And then, you know, life passes you by and you haven't spent that quality time with this person that you love, which is really more what's more important than that. So I love that that slowing down um sense of it. I think I was just what was I just listening to? Oh, it was more morning meditation. I meditate for 10 to 12 minutes every morning, or I try to. Um, and they were talking about um how it's the body that gets you into the present moment, which we we all know, but it's still so fascinating because our minds are always rushing ahead or reminiscing about the past and fretting over things. And the the best and easiest way to get into the present moment is with the body. And that's what gets you to slow down because the body's always in the present moment, it's always taking care of things without you knowing. One of your uh people that you interviewed talked about the body as your subconscious, like literally as your subconscious, which I yeah, Brian Troskass, doctor. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, so that's such an easy story.
SPEAKER_00:My last question for you would be um of all the people you've met online who have who have listened to your videos and connected with you, um, are there any stories that stand out? I mean, you mentioned this lady who had, you know, this person, sorry, not lady, this person who had migraines, who they went away, the person shoulder people. Is there anyone who like uh from afar who has stood out as wow, that was effective and it helped them. And I never even saw them and I never even touched them. How awesome is that kind of experience?
SPEAKER_01:It's amazing. And and a lot of them will say, you know, and um and greetings from Switzerland and Germany and Finland, like, you know, all over the world. Like I was like, oh wow, I just helped somebody's tennis elbow in, you know, uh that's it's it's really, really gratifying. I think that's that's the most gratifying thing, and one of the things that that makes me want to keep doing it because it can't, it actually can be filming videos is very lonely. There's no one in front of you. You put it out there and you don't know what happens. So it's the people that um take the time to say things like that that really, I don't know if they know how meaningful it is. I always try to thank them and tell them how much because it's so it's so easy for us, I think, to complain about things online when things go wrong. And when it works, it's good. That's you know, that it worked is what I expected, but you don't say anything. So the people who take the time to appreciate that and reach out, I don't think they realize how much that helps the people who put out the content to because that's all we know. That's all we know is from what we get back. So hearing things like that is is is really amazing. And then there are the people who add to it and say, oh, and also what I discovered was, or, you know, I did this in combination and I added this, or um, you know, I knew that this helped my headache, but what I didn't know was it also helped with XYZ, you know, and and so it gets you thinking, like, oh, and and maybe I'll do a video to lean into that a little bit more, or so, you know, and giving you ideas for for different things um that you you didn't know. I didn't know this little massage would would be something like that, or or had the potential to have that kind of of power or uh healing. So it's the the comments are fantastic.
SPEAKER_00:I I like what you're saying because I think you know it goes to that component of community, but also loneliness, you know, as massage therapists, as acupuncturists, osteos, physios, unless you're working in a clinic with multiple people, kairos, you know, all these manual therapy disciplines, you're very much alone usually. You know, it's you in a room with a client or a patient. And then it's you alone in a room with your next client or patient. And then maybe you have a quick lunch together, but maybe your schedule doesn't line up with your if you work in a clinic with several practitioners, maybe your schedule doesn't line up, so you're eating on your own. Um, and then you know, your your hours are usually the different if you're self-employed and your time off is usually alone because your other friends are working or your partner has a job. And and then when you're content creating, you know, you're on your own. When I do my podcasts, it's I'm editing, I'm on my own. When I do my newsletter, I'm on my own. And then, you know, when I teach, you're not on your own, you're with students, but it's very much you're alone as the authority figure, and then other people are, you know, they look. And so I talk to my wife about this often, as like, you know, as a sole proprietor, massage therapy practitioner, and content creator educator, it is a very lonely profession to do that. And so going to things like conventions, having this sense of community where people communicate back to you. I really enjoyed this, it helped. That sense of community really suddenly makes a difference and has a more powerful impact than you know, my wife, who she works at home. But when she does go to the office, she's got a community, and all day long she's writing other people and she's talking to people who are part of her community and they're building to a project together. Um, yeah, that sense of community and loneliness in our profession, I think, is is pretty is pretty big. And so I love that what you're bringing is a sense of community that's also global by by nature.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it's it's very um it's very personal too because I spent so much of my life isolated. And that means that I lost a lot of friends along the way. I didn't make a lot of friends that I could have made. There was tons of social anxiety. I feel like I started growing up at, I mean, I was sick for a very long time. I feel like I started growing up maybe in my mid to late 20s. Like I was, oh, what what does an adult do? Because I don't know. I just missed my growing up, you know. So um, so the fact then that I went into, yes, a touch healing connection kind of career, but I'm also very I'm a private practitioner. I work alone. Um, and it is very, very isolating. And I don't have that community that I could have grown throughout my life. So so that it's even more meaningful to me to get things like that and to create that, you know, like my mother-in-law, that conversation with the people that you see every day, even if they aren't your best friends, it makes a difference. It impacts you, it changes your mood, it changes the tone, it changes the course of your day, it brings you out of yourself. Um, and so that's become very important to me. And and I think that's something that even people with a lot of friends could usually use more of because just the the nature of our active busy lives get it gets very isolating. So just reaching out to somebody. So it's it's it's a it's a personal agenda as well as uh a wanting to, but that's how so many people come into the healing profession. Like you said, you know, we have our own experience and then we find something that's helpful, and we want to share that as much as possible with other people who feel the same way.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much, Rachel.
SPEAKER_01:Of course.
SPEAKER_00:I I really I want to thank you for two reasons. One, for joining my podcast. That's always I'm always appreciative of people who want to give their time and spend time with me talking and talking about what they're passionate about. But two, I want to give a specific shout out and thank you to doing something that is unique in our profession, and that you are creating massage therapy for the masses who can afford and can't access good manual therapy. And that is a unique thing that you're doing. I haven't seen a lot of people do this, I haven't come across a lot of other pages. Maybe one of the only other ones I've seen is massage therapy media. We leave in there, it's a paid format, even though they do have a free format as well. Um, and it's primarily more for massage therapists, not necessarily for the general population, although there is some stuff there for that. And so I just I think what you're doing is very unique. I think it's special, and I think it has uh a bigger, profound uh impact than you know, when you do get thanks yous, you you probably feel it, like you mentioned, but I I think your impact is probably bigger than you think. Uh, only in that not everybody is saying thank you, but everybody's, you know, the people who are watching. And so you're doing something that I think a lot of other massage therapists wish and want they could do. I know I filmed a lot of videos in the hope to put them on YouTube, and I absolutely haven't. I know I have an entire library of videos of stuff like that that I haven't done, and it probably won't, to be honest. Um, so you're already doing something that other people have thought about and inspired to do, but you've actually done it. And what you're doing is giving people an understanding and an introduction into manual therapy in a way that they may never have had, let alone the relief that comes with it and the community. So I I want to say thank you for that reason specifically, because to me, that is a unique thing you're doing that promotes our promotion profession, helps our profession, but primarily helps people embodiment with embodiment and with their pain and discomfort. And you know, being who I am, there's there's no greater gift that you can give somebody than helping them understand their body and their pain more. So thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. That's yeah, that that really that really does mean the world to me. And I um and I I was thinking I was thinking how unique what you offer is while you said that, because I have an impossible time finding classes that I want to take. I'm done with modalities, you know, I'm done with techniques, I'm done. Uh and like you said, so many people later in their massage careers are just looking for, and so when I saw a massage a class called How Massage Works, I'm like, thank you. You know, something other than the do this, you know, and and and uh pay a lot of money to take my whole modality course. Um the modality empires as um Pauline Grumilla calls them, I think. And uh and I I wish there were more continuing education classes like you offer because it's it's transformative in a way nothing else I've taken is, you know, like I'm and it it's changed the way I think, it's changed the way I work. Like, yes, I'm oscillating and vibrating a lot, but it's also made the um my connection with my clients so much deeper. And I'm always looking for more classes like that, and it's so hard to find. So thank you so, so much for what you do and for this amazing podcast, which I I really enjoy so much and always learn something from.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you. Um, is there anything you'd like to promote? Do you want to talk about anything else coming up for you with your book or anything like that, or where they can get access to it before we sign off?
SPEAKER_01:Sure, it's it's on Amazon. Um, the the name of the book is Hungry for Life. Um, it it really was written for uh parents, caregivers, people who just don't get it because it's really, really hard to understand an eating disorder. Um, it's told from my point of view, a very unreliable narrator, but you get to experience what I was going through. So maybe you can understand more. And, you know, like you said, with daughters, you know, especially if you have have uh kids and you want to just be able to recognize any red flags, I think that's that's helpful. Um so that's on Amazon. Uh, if you like psychological suspense, that book is there, uh Glass Half Broken, um, which also definitely has aspects of me and my family and my experiences, I guess, like like all do. Um, Rachel Richards Massage is my YouTube channel. You know, feel free to check it out. There's over 200 videos there now. Um, and I'm happy to answer any questions or talk to anybody. My um my what is it? My email address is rachelrichardsmassage at gmail.com. I'm like, what's it called again? Oh, I told you last week was a long week, two funerals. I'm you know get back in the rachelrichardsmassage at gmail.com. And I'm I'm yes, I'm happy to talk to anybody. My website is rachel richards.com, um, which I really need to uh kind of it needs an overhaul because it still has a lot of um old beliefs that I had when I made the website, and a lot of it is not true anymore. So it's finding a way to make it um optimized for search engines without saying massage increases circulation or things like that. So please forgive me things you read.
SPEAKER_00:I have the same problem.
SPEAKER_01:Please forgive me. I'm I'm on, I'm working on it.
SPEAKER_00:But uh I have the same problem. My website has the correct information that I'm aware of, but it means it doesn't get a lot of search optimization.
SPEAKER_01:That's hard. It's hard. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, awesome. Thank you so much, Rachel.
SPEAKER_01:All right, thank you so much. It was a pleasure.